Building Authority Without Risk for Licensed Professionals

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

The purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. It does not provide legal advice. It does not create an attorney-client relationship. While the host is not a lawyer, the content is overseen by licensed counsel. If you need help with a legal matter, you should always consult with a qualified attorney.

SPEAKER_03 0:15

If you’re a licensed professional, whether you are a nurse, dentist, therapist, contractor, really any regulated professional, you’re expected to be visible. You need a website, professional presence. Maybe you are posting online, you’re speaking publicly, or participating in podcasts like this. Here’s where things get tricky. The way that a typical business markets itself and the way that a licensed professional communicates are not always the same thing. Sometimes that language that builds authority in business can create regulatory problems with your license, especially if what you say crosses certain lines. So today we are talking about communication, visibility, credibility. We’re looking at how professionals can share their voice clearly and build authority in their industry, all while staying mindful and compliant of those regulatory boundaries. My guest today is Dennis DM Metter. DM has spent decades working in marketing, SEO, and communication, helping professionals strengthen their presence and share their expertise in ways that build trust. DM, thank you so much for joining me today.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

Thank you for having me. I checked out a few of your episodes online, so I’m excited to have a conversation.

The Internet Made Expertise A Commodity

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Absolutely. Excited to have you here. So let’s talk about why communication and visibility is becoming more important for licensed professionals today than it previously used to be. Can you talk to us a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Yeah, absolutely. I think it’s there’s a there’s two things that have happened in my humble opinion. Um, the first one is there’s been a commoditization through the internet. So you talk about, you know, um knowledge work, legal, you know, real estate, um, you know, medical, anything. Nowadays, when you have questions, you go to the internet. You go to your phone, you go to your iPad, you go to whatever, you answer those questions. And so there’s already sort of a filter in front of these professions before people ever talk to them. And so if you do not participate in that part of the conversation, somebody or something else will, and will either number one, take your opportunity, or number two, create improper expectations for those who are visiting you. So by by communicating through media, uh, social media, podcasting, YouTube video, whatever it is, by communicating ahead of time, that gives you the opportunity to participate in the communication and remove yourself from being commoditized. Those are really the two things that have happened that have happened. You need to participate, and you don’t want to just be, you know, whatever number seven on my list of 10 to call, where they all pretty much seem the same. So the only difference at the end of the day for me is maybe price, maybe what network they’re in, you know, it variables from there.

Where Marketing Creates Regulatory Risk

SPEAKER_03 3:08

Yeah, no, that makes sense. It’s kind of meeting people where they’re at, right? Meeting your clientele or your customer base, um, where they’re gonna be, where they’re spending most of their time. Like you said, yeah, everything’s really digitized these days. So that absolutely makes sense. On this podcast, we see that a lot of regulatory issues start with something that seemed really small or very trivial at the time. Where are you seeing professionals kind of unintentionally get in trouble when they are maybe marketing, advertising, or or putting themselves out there on social media or or just in the world itself?

SPEAKER_02 3:48

So, like with us, we primarily work with attorneys, and that’s obviously highly regulated. You know, I don’t work a lot with people that fall under FINRA as of right now, just because that’s the most strict, you know, sort of like rules that exist and there’s always constantly changing and things like that. But for the most part, what has ended up happening is they are, let’s say they they serve multiple states, and you know, they end up kind of overlooking. So let’s say I have an office in Texas, I have an office in New York, and I have an office in California. And I create the content with Texas in mind, but I don’t think about the bar or the rules for California or New York. So I think that’s probably where the biggest issue comes into play is they think, well, I’m physically standing here, but if you want to market there as serving that area, you need to pay attention to what that is as well. And so that’s definitely the biggest uh uh thing I’ve seen come across.

FAQ Podcasting As A Safe Format

SPEAKER_03 4:49

Absolutely. It’s you have to be very uh mindful of the state-specific regulations or rules that you may be practicing under and kind of understanding um, you know, physical location, even where you’re going to be marketing your services. Those are two different things for sure. Any tips that you would have for a professional on how they can like communicate their expertise and that authority, but without exaggerating or creating sort of any unrealistic expectation?

SPEAKER_02 5:19

Well, what we do and what we kind of hang our hat on, and there’s a few reasons for it, is FAQ sort of uh podcasting. So we really dive into who the ideal client for our client is, whether they’re an attorney or in some other vertical. And then once we kind of find that out, we create a content plan where we actually provide the host, and then they come in and answer, you know, seven to 10 questions and about a 20, 30 minute podcast. And what we found that enables them to do is I’m not saying, well, if you work with me, this is how I’m gonna be able to, you know, what I do. They just say, well, you know, in in this state, the way this happens, and we basically just try to emulate as if they’re sitting across the desk from that potential client so that they’re already going to be careful in the way they’re answering because it’s it’s basically emulating something, a muscle that they’re already using. So they’re not like getting on camera and having a podcast, they’re literally just sitting and doing a Zoom call type thing with our host, which often they can work with the same host over and over and build up rapport. So it’s just like having a conversation with a potential client. I think the more that you can put yourself in a place of comfort and emulate a place of comfort, the less likely you are to find yourself hemming and hawing. Because there’s also the other side of that. Yeah, you don’t want to overpromise. You don’t want to be like, listen, if I get this kind of case, guaranteed I’m gonna win every time, right? But on the other side, you don’t want to answer so vaguely that you really don’t provide any value or you waste time. You know, giving a bunch of like little asterisks and a little, and well, unless this and in case that. You want to be, listen, this is what I see. This is typically how it happens. Now it might not always be the case, but in the majority of cases, this is what we see, this is what we’re seeing with our clients, this is how I handle it a couple different ways. And so that gives them the opportunity to kind of bridge that gap between being an expert and being somebody who just gets up and says a whole bunch of nothing. And I think sometimes experts get caught up in that trap of I want to speak and be heard, but I got to be careful because I don’t want to really say anything either. And and that just doesn’t cut it anymore.

Be Specific Without Naming Clients

SPEAKER_03 7:32

Yeah, no, no, absolutely. Um, it’s kind of speaking of that, we know that the clearly communicating with clients, you know, peers, patients, customers, etc., is really crucial. It, you know, it needs to be clear. But can you kind of explain what clear communication looks like when we’re we’re talking about from a licensed perspective and what kind of checks should someone be running before they’re, you know, doing a podcast outline or um putting together their website, their biography, even like a professional profile like LinkedIn?

SPEAKER_02 8:11

Um, I mean, again, with who I work with, they’re kind of like self-regulating for the most part. Um, we as a company, as a media company, we try to trust the people that we work with. You know, they they know what they can and can’t say for the most part. But some of the things that we suggest doing, for example, is talking about types of situations instead of I had a client that saying things like, saying things like, well, we see that quite a bit. And when we do, these are the types of ways that we solve it. So taking a step back from direct situations, kind of um shading them to be a generalized sort of like, this is what we generally do because we see a lot of that, versus saying, Well, when I have somebody that’s six foot tall with red hair walking through the door, what I do is I always make sure, you know, you don’t want to be hyper specific. And so using using that sort of language and then also telling stories in the abstract. You know, um, we’ve had clients who have had issues like, and when those clients had issues like X, we have suggested Y, which resulted in Z. So again, never saying John uh or things like that. So that’s where we’ve seen the most success of providing expertise, showing that you’ve handled that sort of situation. Because that’s what people want to know. Like when they’re when they’re engaging with your content, it’s not because they want to know if they like your teeth. It’s because they want to know do I trust this person? Do they sound like they know what they’re talking about? Can they help someone like me specifically? Because everybody feels like their medical issue is very unique, their uh financial issue is very unique, their legal issue is very unique, their real estate issue is very unique. So the more you can speak to specifics of situations without speaking to specifics of people, the more the people are going to be able to relate to that and be like, oh, okay. And even like with me, when I talk to, for example, um, if I’m talking to an estate attorney, I might say something like, Yeah, I mean, we work with over 20-something attorneys in the estate probate. And what we typically see is we take this approach and we’ve seen this, this, and this be successful for them. So they’re going, oh, okay, he he can help someone just like me. And here’s some different ways that he might do that. And so again, that’s the kind of thing that I really suggest that they do.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

Yeah, no, and you you especially for attorneys, you’ve got to be very mindful um when you’re talking about previous cases or you know, sharing um very specific information. So, yeah, like you said, get try and get as specific as you can without getting down to the specifics, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

Right. You want to be generally specific. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 11:09

So professionals are often feeling the pressure to stand out. I mean, sometimes that can really uh really lead to some poor oversight. You really just want to kind of put yourself out there, reach the top. But um, what are some of the better, more compliant ways that professionals can build that authority and and like we kind of have been talking about, building that trust without overpromising or crossing any lines?

Founder Led Marketing And No Privacy

SPEAKER_02 11:36

Well, again, um, like what we do, we use podcasting, not necessarily because we’re trying to create like podcasting stars. What we tell our clients is we’re building your podcast. It is not for mass consumption, it is for a specific person in a specific place, in a specific time in their life with a specific issue. And I like to use like sort of so understanding that that’s the approach you’re taking. What that allows you to do is it allows you to speak to specific issues and the like kind of like the granular stuff within that issue without, again, speaking to the specifics of this is the results we guarantee. You know, every time I deal with this medical issue, I’ve never not been able to have them, you know, go into remission or whatever from it. So it’s the repetition of dealing with the specific general thing that’s happening and then answering that from several different areas. And like I’ll use legal as an example. If I’m a criminal defense lawyer, you know, I could talk about defending people in court, but I can also talk about defending people that are dealing with sex crimes. I could talk about people that are dealing being accused of, you know, felony. I can talk about white collar. And so, although all of these kind of talk about the same general thing, when I start dealing with specifics, and I always tell my clients, well, you want to drive deep on your content of what you’re talking about. So you want to talk about who you are, what you are, your philosophies, how you kind of work and how you’re gonna kind of work with that client. And then once you’ve driven very deep, now you can start branching out and going wide with it. And so now you’re taking that specific information that really applies to everybody and then applying it to the specifics. Why? Because of the LLM models, the GEO models, the AEO models. They are all based off of question answer, question, answer, question, answer. So when you structure your content in a way where you’re getting a question and answering it, then you put yourself in a much better position to show up when these people are kind of in that mind frame. I would say, and again, I I think this is where we’re at with like this whole like sort of founder-led step out from behind your logo approach to marketing that we’ve seen in the last few years. It used to kind of be like the sort of thing that you did when you didn’t have money, right? So well, if you can’t afford to market, just market yourself. Like you can’t afford a branding agency, just put your face on the business card. But that’s kind of flopped, you know. We’ve they’re you know, twisted around and we’ve seen big, huge companies revolve around the founders themselves, starting with like Steve Jobs and you know, uh uh Richard Branson. They were kind of the precursors. Now you’ve got like your Gary V’s, you’ve got, you know, where it’s the founder is the company. And so what I tell people anymore is understand if you’re a founder, there is no more off limits anymore. Like if you have a Facebook, understand that somebody could look at that Facebook. Like, there’s no assumption of privacy. So who you are is always going to be. That’s where the whole cancel culture, that’s what the cancel culture taught us, is it’s like you don’t get a tweet out a bunch of racist tweets and then 10 years later be rewarded for it.

SPEAKER_03 15:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Like, and so if we understand that, then instead of being like, well, I hope I don’t say something wrong, when we start to actively participate in what’s being said about our company, from our company, by us, from us, LinkedIn, things like that, where everything that’s being said literally comes from us. That’s why, again, using a podcast as a basis or a YouTube video series as a basis for content, because the vast majority of these people can speak the way they need to. Where they get afraid is when they see it on paper. So if you just speak the way you’re supposed to and then let somebody digitally translate, or if you have somebody on your team translate it into these places, then you’re going to be much safer. So I think the safest thing you can do is actively participate. Like for myself, you know, we have about 60 people on the team. We have 200 clients, we have five internal brands, we have I do a bunch of uh extra podcasting, and then we have I have my own podcast, probably getting ready to launch another. But like for my content, I record every training, I record every client meeting, I obviously record every podcast. Um, I record just everything all the time. And it just becomes content. Like I have my team that kind of uses it, and there’s so many tools out there now. You could just start loading this stuff in and create a voice if you don’t have like a person to do it for you. So participating is like you can’t just hand off your persona to somebody else and say, now go make people like me. Like you have to be likable, you know. Um, you can’t just hand off your persona to somebody else and say, now go people, make go people trust me. You have to be trustworthy and you have to participate in that. Marketing is no more, here you go, Mr. or Mrs. Marketer, here’s$5,000,$500, whatever it is. Here’s a monthly retainer that I’m gonna sign up for. Now you go do it and leave me alone. We we’re we’re not there anymore. Because if I like you, I’m gonna check. If I like your company, I’m gonna check out, you know, your LinkedIn. I might see if you’re on Facebook. You might have a couple of same Facebook friends as I do. I might see if you’re on Instagram somehow. I might see what your Twitter is. And so all of these things are out there. You can’t really hide anymore because of the two-factor authorization and uh you know, and all of that stuff. So participating in it is the biggest thing that I can tell these people.

SPEAKER_03 17:30

No, that’s very sound advice. I mean, and hopefully you um would want to participate in your business that you worked so hard to build. Um you know, there are some times where you may want to take a back seat to things, but yeah, ultimately, like you said, um kind of taking the reins and um and you know, going with it is the way to go. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

Well, there’s so many, like, think about any anything. And I’m I just want to jump in with this thought. Like, yeah, you know, you think about like a med spa. Like I look and I see 10 med spas, and and let’s just say they’re of their footprint is pretty equal, their aesthetic is pretty equal, their website is pretty equal. Like, what’s gonna make me feel comfortable to have somebody poke needles in my face or blow up my lips or whatever it is that they’re gonna do? It’s gonna be to get to know that person that I’m actually going to interact with. People don’t want to interact with logos anymore. We have we are three and a half generations into our the vast majority of our social life being in a little, you know, a little phone like this. We’re three and a half generations in. So people are seeking connection directly through digital now. It used to be we lived our life and picked up our phone. Now we live our phone and get interrupted by our life. And so, as business owners, we need to understand that if we can put ourselves in a place where people are connecting with us, seeing our philosophy, seeing how we handle situations like theirs, there’s going to be no like, and all they have to do is walk in the door and confirm trust. Now they’re not price shopping you, they’re not comparing you to, you know, somebody else and their fees. They want to work with you because they trust you, they’ve listened to you, you’ve taught them, you’ve assuaged fears, you’ve given them clarity. Now all of a sudden they’re just like, no, that’s that’s my doctor. Oh, that’s my realtor. Yeah. That’s my and they’ve never even met you. But, you know, you know, there are people that tell me I’m their business coach because they listen to my podcast. I don’t even know the people. Like my butcher down the road here. He was like opening up, and I live on an island in Belize, so it’s not a very big island, about 25,000 people here. And he was, he had a like butcher shop, and then he was like opening up the section to it and adding more groceries. And I was like, So, you know, what’s your what’s your reasoning behind this? Oh, we were trying to do this with the business, trying to do that. And I was like, you know, I do some podcasting, I talk about like business and da-da-da-da-da. Not just, you know, podcasting. It’s like, oh, I know, I listen to all your podcasts, you’re my business coach. And I was like, what? That’s what podcasting allows. You become somebody’s ex before the why even happens.

The One Principle: Be Yourself

SPEAKER_03 20:11

Yeah, no, that’s awesome. That’s uh that’s so cool, too. How fun. Well, before we wrap up, if there is just one communication principle, DM, that you would want professionals to know and to put into practice, keep in mind, what would you want them to think about first?

SPEAKER_02 20:34

So if you’re doing this for the purpose of piercing through the clutter, cultivating ideal clients, and being able to charge what you’re worth. The number one, and it this it’s it’s already it’s already being overused, but if you just really be you and kind of like embrace that wholly and you know, be sort of self-deprecating, be sort of silly. If you are, be you know, a little bit geeky about some things, be a little bit emotional about some things, but just really be yourself. That is how people that are using founder-led marketing are cutting through the clutter. The ones that are worried about that, I gotta have my tie straight and I gotta just stand straight and I’ve got to put on my authority voice now. You know, like those people don’t do well in this arena. It’s the people that are like, hey, like there’s this guy in Oklahoma City. I think he’s about to, I don’t want to, like, he’s supposed to be signing on, but like we met through LinkedIn. That guy’s got tons of followers. He gets and his big thing is I’m the guy who doesn’t like cheese. And like he’ll he’ll be like, hey, I’m hiring, he’s an attorney, but like he it’s become this big thing on LinkedIn. People are like, how do you not like cheese? And so, like, he just casually mentioned it one time in a LinkedIn post, and it became this big thing. And so, like learning to embrace who we really are and allowing that to magnify. Even if it’s something silly, like you might say, oh, it’s silly, but this guy is like three years in. He has hired like 15 people. He started from like he was an he he he started off. He’s an immigrant. He started off on like a visa. Because no one would hire him after he got out of law school. He started his own law firm because he couldn’t get hired. Now he’s like three years into it. He’s got like six or seven people that work for him, and he’s doing multi-seven year, seven figures a year because he jumped out and said, Hey, I’m just kind of this guy who barely passed law school, but really loves people, and I do know this stuff, and I can help you. And he’s built a whole brand off of that. That’s an example of founder-led marketing. Now, does he want to be the lawyer who doesn’t like cheese? Better that than lawyer number eight, whose fees were$200 more than the other guys.

SPEAKER_03 22:50

That’s my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

So I think when we jump out there and be our authentic self. Like today, I kind of have I we’re starting this like kind of cheeky billboard series where I’m like doing silly attorney billboards, but for my podcasting network, but like in the style of um of lawyer billboards, and we’re putting it up on LinkedIn. So like I have one today, it’s kind of a little like cheeky risk, risque, whatever you want to say, just about how we’re the biggest podcasting network that exists. But we kind of say it like we might also be the only one counting or like keeping track of it. So like don’t be impressed. But like when you do that kind of stuff, it endears people to you because they’re like, oh, this isn’t like copy made up in some room with two 24-year-old women who got their degree in marketing and they’re just trying to make you buy from this company. This is actually him or her just being their silly, goofy, but something I can relate to being themselves. So that’s what I would say is do not be afraid to just put yourself out there in a way where the silliest little thing will pop off, but it will it will gain you uh affinity from people that you don’t even know.

SPEAKER_03 24:03

Yeah, no, absolutely. Um actually one of my uh favorite lines to tell my guests is that authenticity is a superpower. So I want you to like come on and be your be yourself, and there’s only one you, right? So uh yeah, absolutely. And I think just goes back to that that trust and uh and like we said, when when people see you, they recognize you and they can go, oh huh, that’s kind of funny. It really makes them want to go interact with your business, engage with you as a founder. Um, I think that’s that’s you’re totally spot on there. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Yeah. Well, I I mean I can keep talking. So I’m you said this was our last question. So I’m trying to honor that.

SPEAKER_03 24:43

Yeah, no, that’s that’s all I’ve got for you, unfortunately, today. But thank you so much for for joining me and just shedding light on, you know, how these professionals can build that authority, build that trust, but stay mindful of the regulations that govern them.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Absolutely. And I I’ll just say this shameless plug. Like what we focus and specialize in is a turnkey process. Our attorneys spend 30 minutes with us, they get a month’s worth of marketing, a podcast. We have streaming TV channels that are launching, guest matching services, we do all their social media, we cut it all up. Like it’s an all-in-one thing. And we just today went live with the Authority Podcast Network. So if you are someone who knows that if you could get out from behind your logo and from behind your desk, people would probably relate to you, but it’s overwhelming to have a podcast, a YouTube show, to do all this marketing, give us a call. Like we can help you. Now, maybe we only work with one of each kind in each market. So, you know, if we have a criminal defense in your market and you come to us, we can’t help you, but follow along and we’ve got downloads and things where, you know, do it yourself. I just found out like ChatGPT, you know, you we used to Google ourselves, right? So now I’ll just say, you know, who is the legal or what is the legal podcast network? I put in ChatGPT today. And then like I went down through it and then it said, Would you like me to show you a cheaper way than using their services to do it on your own? And I looked at it and it was like, only expects like like six to 10 hours a week of your time. And I was like, ah, let Chat GPT tell them it’s gonna take them 25 to 40 hours a month to do what I do for what I what I cost, which by the way, they have me listed at three to five times my rate. Maybe I should start charging more because they’re like, their service is X to Z. And I’m like, that’s like three to five times what we charge. So I’ll take it.

SPEAKER_03 26:35

Talk about aligning those expectations, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

Yeah, yeah. So thanks for having me on, Simone. Hopefully, this is a help to your people. And if I could be of help to them in any in any way, link up with me on on LinkedIn or any social media outlet, come to our websites. We’re happy to help. Even if we don’t get any money for doing it, um, we’re happy to help in whatever way we can.

SPEAKER_03 26:56

Awesome. Yeah, where can listeners go to learn more about you? I’m assuming the legalpodcastnetwork.com, is that correct?

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Correct. And the authoritypodcastnetwork.com. And then if they want to like kind of see like me directly, the founder-led sort of marketing stuff, like, or they want to go see this silly billboard and be like, okay, how risque is this guy on LinkedIn? Um, Dennis Metter on LinkedIn, and you know, I I a year ago, so I had LinkedIn like 17 years, and a year ago, I was like, all right, let me try this LinkedIn thing. I had like 1,500 connections. Now here we are. I’ve got, I don’t know, 7,500-ish connections. We’ve gotten a number of clients, a number of referral relationships out of LinkedIn. It’s our third most profitable um way of building our business. So um, yeah, it’s it’s been great.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

That’s awesome.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

So connect, connect there. Let’s talk.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

Absolutely. And I will be going to check out that billboard soon.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

All right, you better like it or make a you better share it. I want you to be like, this guy was my guest today.

SPEAKER_03 27:56

That’s awesome. Very cool.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

All right. All right, thank you, Simone.

Final Reminder And Sign Off

SPEAKER_03 28:00

You’re very welcome. We’re listeners, communication may seem like a small thing, but the way that you present yourself, whether it’s online, publicly, professionally, can absolutely affect your reputation and sometimes your regulatory exposure. Stay mindful of your communication and marketing. And if you need help, speak with an expert. As always, thanks for tuning in today. And until next week, it’s inspired and continue engaging with your regulatory agency.